Why is the off season so hard for you guys to operate?

[Knorr]

The 1st season was fun once we got past the program errors which caused our league to have to redraft, but this off season has sucked.

Absolutely no guidance, not updates provided to the coaches/players. I just read that the player availability will not be ready by the cut off dates - I don’t even know the cut offs dates,

Why is it so difficult to post a season calendar detailing the deadlines, start dates, etc?

[UmmBerrto]

The 1st season was fun once we got past the program errors which caused our league to have to redraft, but this off season has sucked.

Absolutely no guidance, not updates provided to the coaches/players. I just read that the player availability will not be ready by the cut off dates - I don’t even know the cut offs dates,

Why is it so difficult to post a season calendar detailing the deadlines, start dates, etc?


Consistent updates( Nightly ), even if it's bad news would definitely be nice.

I check the game most every day.

It would be nice to know if the guys running it do the same.

Kind of the old Bill Clinton/Winston Churchill fireside chats.

But, I cannot imagine what they are going through with all the craziness that transpired over the last six weeks.

I get the impression that the game is a labor of love that might no longer be so lovely to all involved.

I imagine part of that love loss might have to do with us, the players.

However, I am just guessing.

Maybe these guys still love this game like it was the first time, and they are overloaded with life responsibilities and the such.

I am just spit balling.

Unless you know what they are doing, even if they explained it to us, would we really comprehend the why?

Having said all that, communication about the what, would still be cool.

This is probably the only game where I have had direct communication with the designers.

It's kinda cool, but also a bit frustrating because I don't know if they really hear me.

Such is life.

[JackCarsten]

The 1st season was fun once we got past the program errors which caused our league to have to redraft, but this off season has sucked.

Absolutely no guidance, not updates provided to the coaches/players. I just read that the player availability will not be ready by the cut off dates - I don’t even know the cut offs dates,

Why is it so difficult to post a season calendar detailing the deadlines, start dates, etc?

The schedule got messed up with the bot trading issue. Coding and programming takes time and this is a second job for Cdcox and Kevin or a hobby. They have lives outside of this. And the price is fairly cheap so willing to bet they don’t make much money off it. So be greatful we have sandbox and be patient.

[smackawits]

The 1st season was fun once we got past the program errors which caused our league to have to redraft, but this off season has sucked.

Absolutely no guidance, not updates provided to the coaches/players. I just read that the player availability will not be ready by the cut off dates - I don’t even know the cut offs dates,

Why is it so difficult to post a season calendar detailing the deadlines, start dates, etc?

I've been asking the same thing for weeks and still have not received guidance.

[cdcox]

1. We can’t begin getting ready for simulation until after the regular season is over.
2. We both have demanding jobs that usually take 50+ hours per week. Some weeks it is much more. Which weeks are going to be busy isn’t always predictable.
3. We are football fans and like to watch the playoffs.
4. I spent at least 20 hours of good Sandbox working time to the Kenny B. Stopped issue. Not predictable.
5. I lost a weekend to a long-standing volunteer activity.
6. I have a significant issue in my personal life I’ve been dealing with the last week. Not predictable.
7. The whole end of season data processing operation takes about 40 hours of work. With all of the above, finding an extra week of working time just isn’t feasible.
8. As far as making money, we are no where close to breaking even.

[Kingswood]

1. We can’t begin getting ready for simulation until after the regular season is over.
2. We both have demanding jobs that usually take 50+ hours per week. Some weeks it is much more. Which weeks are going to be busy isn’t always predictable.
3. We are football fans and like to watch the playoffs.
4. I spent at least 20 hours of good Sandbox working time to the Kenny B. Stopped issue. Not predictable.
5. I lost a weekend to a long-standing volunteer activity.
6. I have a significant issue in my personal life I’ve been dealing with the last week. Not predictable.
7. The whole end of season data processing operation takes about 40 hours of work. With all of the above, finding an extra week of working time just isn’t feasible.
8. As far as making money, we are no where close to breaking even.

Thank you for what you can contribute

[InvinciBill]

1. We can’t begin getting ready for simulation until after the regular season is over.
2. We both have demanding jobs that usually take 50+ hours per week. Some weeks it is much more. Which weeks are going to be busy isn’t always predictable.
3. We are football fans and like to watch the playoffs.
4. I spent at least 20 hours of good Sandbox working time to the Kenny B. Stopped issue. Not predictable.
5. I lost a weekend to a long-standing volunteer activity.
6. I have a significant issue in my personal life I’ve been dealing with the last week. Not predictable.
7. The whole end of season data processing operation takes about 40 hours of work. With all of the above, finding an extra week of working time just isn’t feasible.
8. As far as making money, we are no where close to breaking even.

I <3 u
I <3 u

[smackawits]

1. We can’t begin getting ready for simulation until after the regular season is over.
2. We both have demanding jobs that usually take 50+ hours per week. Some weeks it is much more. Which weeks are going to be busy isn’t always predictable.
3. We are football fans and like to watch the playoffs.
4. I spent at least 20 hours of good Sandbox working time to the Kenny B. Stopped issue. Not predictable.
5. I lost a weekend to a long-standing volunteer activity.
6. I have a significant issue in my personal life I’ve been dealing with the last week. Not predictable.
7. The whole end of season data processing operation takes about 40 hours of work. With all of the above, finding an extra week of working time just isn’t feasible.
8. As far as making money, we are no where close to breaking even.

I think we all appreciate the fact that this is a labor of love for you and it is not a business model that you will make money on. Putting some target dates out, even if the target is missed, is better than just flying blind. Like some others, I check everyday......but how many don't? I wish there was a way I could help you.

[cdcox]

The issue with Trevor Penning is another example of why it is difficult to publish a reliable schedule. I sat down today with the intention of starting to gather the data for the player availability table (a manual process that requires a few hours). First I went to look at the Trevor Penning issue. I thought it would be a quick matter of changing a single value on a single record in the database. Turned out to be a duplicate instance of the same player, which took more than an hour to diagnose and will take at least another hour to fix the issue. As a result, the work on the player availability table will be delayed. These kinds of maintenance issues are a significant time sink, but a normal part of managing a software system of this size and complexity.

[cdcox]

So there were a total four 2022 rookies with database errors. 4.5 hours later, I have found them all and fixed them. Zero progress on building the player availability table. This is an example why progress on getting the simulations ready is slower than planned. I still plan to start collecting the player availability data tonight.

[UmmBerrto]

So there were a total four 2022 rookies with database errors. 4.5 hours later, I have found them all and fixed them. Zero progress on building the player availability table. This is an example why progress on getting the simulations ready is slower than planned. I still plan to start collecting the player availability data tonight.



I believe, if you kept this communication open

People would be more reasonable with their expectations

[Knorr]

I don’t care that this is a 2nd job or not. If you have a “hobby” and then charge people money for the product - you owe your customers the product.

We pay for this service, asking for a season calendar is not an outlandish request. If there is a delay, a simple email to the players stating that there is a delay with an estimate time frame to fix the issue is also not unreasonable.

[smackawits]

I don’t care that this is a 2nd job or not. If you have a “hobby” and then charge people money for the product - you owe your customers the product.

We pay for this service, asking for a season calendar is not an outlandish request. If there is a delay, a simple email to the players stating that there is a delay with an estimate time frame to fix the issue is also not unreasonable.

I agree.......

[Kingswood]

Do you not have the product? Exactly what part of this isn't living up to the expectations of $1.50/mo?

[UmmBerrto]

Again, I really believe, the client just wants more consistent communication from the Administration.

If you guys actually don't have the willingness to check comms and reply once or twice a day every day.

You might consider assigning days to yourselves.

It appears that there are two of you.

Kevin and Cox.

M-W-F

T-T-S-S

Seems to be realistic.

Make yourself check and reply at least once on your day.

Even if there isn't much to say.

Cox here, working on updates.

I see the challenge room is getting some use.

How are you guys liking it?

Kevin here, having a great weekend with my kids.
How are you guys enjoying the game?

Cox here, I can't seem to find the problem in Jet1, still working on it, hope to have it fixed soon.


Kevin here, I hear from Cox that that the Pats1 league is moving forward as planned.


Cox here, it's raining all morning, it's my day off, was supposed to fly kites with the kids.

Gonna plow through some code and some coke, lol just kidding about the code.

Hahahaha, but seriously, I am glad you all are making use of the Challenge Arena.

How about Kingswood, he sure has figured something out.

Maybe I should change some code just to shake things up over there, perhaps there is a flaw I haven't seen just yet


Kevin here, I think we maybe looking to put the game in A major app store, what do you think? Do you think it's ready for a huge client boost?

Cox here, none of these are actually comments that Kevin or I have made, do you think if we did make daily comments, you guys would feel more relaxed and appreciated?

All I'm saying is.

As men, community respect comes with communication and vice versa....

Even when we don't agree, it's good to communicate.

[cdcox]

On Sunday I completed the manual copying of data for the player availability table (about 4 hours of work). There are six additional programs that need to be run to complete this table. The first of these six requires a data source that we subscribe to. We are renewing our subscription now, but it takes a few days.

Nothing happened Monday.
Nothing happened Tuesday.
Nothing happened Wednesday
Nothing will happen Thursday.
Nothing will happen Friday.
If I have the data Saturday (uncertain) I will process it.

[Kevin]

The bottom line is that we have to acquire data that is necessarily processed after the season. We want to keep players engaged all year long, but we just hit some awkward pauses at times. That's part of why we developed the challenge games, but I recognize that doesn't solve all of the problems.

[pit1232]

the challenge game would be fine if the player we draft to play the next season would work with the new player that would be fine. I think we all use the challenge game to see how the new draft player will do on are team but we cant use them till they get put in the system. so if you could fine a way to do that them i think it would help out but we all know that dose not happen that way so keep doing what you need to do to get things done and we will all try to wait for it so have a good day.

[smackawits]

The bottom line is that we have to acquire data that is necessarily processed after the season. We want to keep players engaged all year long, but we just hit some awkward pauses at times. That's part of why we developed the challenge games, but I recognize that doesn't solve all of the problems.

I think the both of you are still missing the point that I see displayed on this thread over and over again. We really don't care to hear about the days that you do not work on the game. I think we all realize (now) that this is a hobby labor of love for the game and probably an exercise in your programming careers. I have seen the following expressed in many ways....GIVE US SOME DATES WHEN YOU EXPECT THINGS TO BE DONE AND COMMUNICATE A NEW DATE IF THAT TARGET DATE IS MISSED. We understand about life. We understand about family. We understand about work. Communicate with us on the important things and we will stick with you. Unfortunately, I believe you chased many potential dollars away and I am hopeful you can turn this thing around and end up with a viable game that puts some money in your pockets for the time you have invested. A number of us have stuck with you despite the numerous problems that have arisen. Give us something in return......expected dates and constant communication regarding them.

[Kevin]

Yeah, I get it. It's frustrating to us when we get a delay as well.

Let me ask this. If we went through and developed a very detailed schedule of our internal processes and posted that, would that be useful? We could then have a thread in here that says, "We're in Step 14J" and people could see where we stand at all times. It would be a little confusing for new leagues since they don't start out on the same schedule, but it would be consistent for most leagues.

I'm offering this and unfortunately the actual updating part would fall to cdcox. But maybe I can arrange to do checkins with him. We'd probably need to limit updates to weekly, though. People are correct in that we both have day jobs right now, so we're not always both available to check in with each other.

[smackawits]

Yeah, I get it. It's frustrating to us when we get a delay as well.

Let me ask this. If we went through and developed a very detailed schedule of our internal processes and posted that, would that be useful? We could then have a thread in here that says, "We're in Step 14J" and people could see where we stand at all times. It would be a little confusing for new leagues since they don't start out on the same schedule, but it would be consistent for most leagues.

I'm offering this and unfortunately the actual updating part would fall to cdcox. But maybe I can arrange to do checkins with him. We'd probably need to limit updates to weekly, though. People are correct in that we both have day jobs right now, so we're not always both available to check in with each other.

Kevin...I think sometimes you make it too difficult on yourselves. IMO we coaches just need DATES....when does FA start,,,what date does it end...What date is the rookie draft.....what date will the 2022 availability report be updated from the previous year.....what date do you expect the season to start....to put it a different way, we don't care how the sausage is made, just what date do you expect the sausage to be done? If the date changes, just inform us of the new date.

[smackawits]

Kevin...I think sometimes you make it too difficult on yourselves. IMO we coaches just need DATES....when does FA start,,,what date does it end...What date is the rookie draft.....what date will the 2022 availability report be updated from the previous year.....what date do you expect the season to start....to put it a different way, we don't care how the sausage is made, just what date do you expect the sausage to be done? If the date changes, just inform us of the new date.

We are past many of these dates now.....so the biggest issue (at least to me) is when will 2022 availability be done so that the rookies are added and we can complete our expected lineups and play some challenge games with all of our new players to test before the opening game....and when do you expect that opening game to be.

[pit1232]

I agree with smackawits we all would like to know when it is going to happen to the start of the new season.