Special Teams & Extra Points

[Kingswood]

I've noticed that when I'm down by 4, instead of kicking the field goal to be down 3, we go for 2. Most of the time we don't get it. It particularly sucks when afterwards I need a TD instead of a FG in a two minute situation.

I've also noticed that a couple of times when I'm down I've punted on 4th and long on my final possession instead of going for it. That feels like I'm literally punting the game away.

There's also been a time or two where we're down and we let the final play of the game be a downed punt. Again that feels like giving up. A punt return for the game winner may be slim odds but it's better than walking off the field with time on the clock.

One other thing that's come up is declining a penalty on the last play of the game. I'm not sure if it applies to Sandbox but accepting the penalty would allow one more play right? If that penalty puts me in FG range and I get an extra play that could cost me a game.

I get that some of this is nitpicking but I just wanted to bring it to light.

[UmmBerrto]

I've noticed that when I'm down by 4, instead of kicking the field goal to be down 3, we go for 2. Most of the time we don't get it. It particularly sucks when afterwards I need a TD instead of a FG in a two minute situation.

I've also noticed that a couple of times when I'm down I've punted on 4th and long on my final possession instead of going for it. That feels like I'm literally punting the game away.

There's also been a time or two where we're down and we let the final play of the game be a downed punt. Again that feels like giving up. A punt return for the game winner may be slim odds but it's better than walking off the field with time on the clock.

One other thing that's come up is declining a penalty on the last play of the game. I'm not sure if it applies to Sandbox but accepting the penalty would allow one more play right? If that penalty puts me in FG range and I get an extra play that could cost me a game.

I get that some of this is nitpicking but I just wanted to bring it to light.



The one I love is the 3rd and Inches incomplete pass
Followed by the 4th and Inches incomplete pass
When my team runs 80% of the time.

But hey, Marshawn Lynch, so, we know it happens in real life.

Oh yeah, and the 4th and inches punt late in the 4th Quarter, those are awesome too.

Like I said before, I look forward to the future when we can log in at Game Time and call the play by play as a head coach.

[pit1232]

I agree with you when you are down by a few point and they go for a 2pc when there is still time in the game and just like you when it 4 and inch i am pass the ball when i run the ball 80 % of the time just like you and i look forward when you can sign in and you pick the plays on offence and defense and use a 3-4 or a 4-3 just like the pro

[Kevin]

I've noticed that when I'm down by 4, instead of kicking the field goal to be down 3, we go for 2. Most of the time we don't get it. It particularly sucks when afterwards I need a TD instead of a FG in a two minute situation.

I've also noticed that a couple of times when I'm down I've punted on 4th and long on my final possession instead of going for it. That feels like I'm literally punting the game away.

There's also been a time or two where we're down and we let the final play of the game be a downed punt. Again that feels like giving up. A punt return for the game winner may be slim odds but it's better than walking off the field with time on the clock.

One other thing that's come up is declining a penalty on the last play of the game. I'm not sure if it applies to Sandbox but accepting the penalty would allow one more play right? If that penalty puts me in FG range and I get an extra play that could cost me a game.

I get that some of this is nitpicking but I just wanted to bring it to light.


Thanks for letting us know. We've tested the sim a lot, but there are an infinite number of game situations so if something glitches based on what should happen we want to know.

The two-point plays are tough to deal with. We base two-point decisions on statistical analyses of what provides the best chance of winning, but that goes against what we often see in the NFL. The debate internally is whether we optimize win percentage even if it doesn't seem logical, or we do what's logical base on our years of watching football. We do the first of those now, but it produces more perplexed looks than anything else in the sims.

We'll look into the 4th and Long deal. If you can provide screenshots or point us to games where it happens, that'll help us understand what's happening, and the same with declining penalties (though you can decline an offensive penalty on the last play). On the punt receiving side, some downed punts are unreturnable, so I'm not sure that's a problem with the sim.

[UmmBerrto]

I will say this, me personally, as a rule, I would prepare my team to look at most all 4th downs as we are going for it, and all 2pt conversions as we are going for it.

That way, psychologically and emotionally, we are not under as much pressure as our opponents.

To my team, the fact that we practice, from the opening camps, that the 4th down is ours, the 2pt conversions are ours, that we are supposed to be going for 2pts, we are supposed to be going for 4th down, therefore our percentage of successful execution would eventually be way higher than the normal league average success rate.

As well as there would be a natural reduction in the negative effect of failure.

I find that Sims never take repetition advancement into account, I am used to that by now.

If the Sim shows teams On Side Kicks 2% of the time with a 5% success rate and my team kicks On Side Kicks 90% of the time, it is only logical that the success rate should go way up above everyone else's 5% success rate.

Same with 2pt and 4th down conversion attempts as well as short yardage.

The more My team Practices week after week and attempts these in game, the higher our team's level of confidence will grow, and the success rate will naturally increase dramatically over the average.

Before the naysayers stop reading and post a reply about how wrong I am.

The same thing has already happened in the NFL with the forward pass.

It used to be the only time teams would throw the ball was on 3rd down and longer then 4.

Only throwing the ball on 3rd down put a lot of pressure on QB's to make the correct read and throw against a defense that was ready for the play.

We saw a lot of three and out drives and poor 3rd down conversion rates from teams with mediocre to good QB's for decades.

Now a days, they are willing to throw the ball on every down, it is a lot more common in today's NFL, on any given Sunday, for a team to have one of the two dozen mediocre QB's like Mitchell Trubisky and Baker Mayfield to throw the ball 35-45 times in a game, than for a team to have the one or two QB's like Jimmy G and Teddy Bridgewater who are more likely to only throw the ball 15-20 times a game.

Analytics tell you that the more you throw the ball the more chances you have to have successful chunk plays.

Funny thing is, it's the same for the Running game.

Bottom line is that the more you do anything in sports, the better your team gets at doing it.


On Average.


Yet, what I was not prepared for, is that your sim, is set up to diminish the effectiveness of anything that is done above the average, (accept the forward pass.)

Clearly, I believe I have shown, your Logic is flawed, and your evaluation and administration of problem-solving solutions is nowhere near logical when confronted with reality, even an alternative reality such as this one.

[Kingswood]

So this just happened...

Zane Gonzalez kicks 64 yards, returned for 143 yards by Braxton Berrios Touchdown, conversion

[UmmBerrto]

So this just happened...

Zane Gonzalez kicks 64 yards, returned for 143 yards by Braxton Berrios Touchdown, conversion

Prove it...

this i gotta see

[Wind From West]

Prove it...

this i gotta see

Watch old film of Dante Hall, ha!

[Kingswood]

Prove it...

this i gotta see

Screenshot won't go through

[UmmBerrto]

Screenshot won't go through

Copy and paste

[Bottle2k]

I will say this, me personally, as a rule, I would prepare my team to look at most all 4th downs as we are going for it, and all 2pt conversions as we are going for it.

That way, psychologically and emotionally, we are not under as much pressure as our opponents.

To my team, the fact that we practice, from the opening camps, that the 4th down is ours, the 2pt conversions are ours, that we are supposed to be going for 2pts, we are supposed to be going for 4th down, therefore our percentage of successful execution would eventually be way higher than the normal league average success rate.

As well as there would be a natural reduction in the negative effect of failure.

I find that Sims never take repetition advancement into account, I am used to that by now.

If the Sim shows teams On Side Kicks 2% of the time with a 5% success rate and my team kicks On Side Kicks 90% of the time, it is only logical that the success rate should go way up above everyone else's 5% success rate.

Same with 2pt and 4th down conversion attempts as well as short yardage.

The more My team Practices week after week and attempts these in game, the higher our team's level of confidence will grow, and the success rate will naturally increase dramatically over the average.

Before the naysayers stop reading and post a reply about how wrong I am.

The same thing has already happened in the NFL with the forward pass.

It used to be the only time teams would throw the ball was on 3rd down and longer then 4.

Only throwing the ball on 3rd down put a lot of pressure on QB's to make the correct read and throw against a defense that was ready for the play.

We saw a lot of three and out drives and poor 3rd down conversion rates from teams with mediocre to good QB's for decades.

Now a days, they are willing to throw the ball on every down, it is a lot more common in today's NFL, on any given Sunday, for a team to have one of the two dozen mediocre QB's like Mitchell Trubisky and Baker Mayfield to throw the ball 35-45 times in a game, than for a team to have the one or two QB's like Jimmy G and Teddy Bridgewater who are more likely to only throw the ball 15-20 times a game.

Analytics tell you that the more you throw the ball the more chances you have to have successful chunk plays.

Funny thing is, it's the same for the Running game.

Bottom line is that the more you do anything in sports, the better your team gets at doing it.


On Average.


Yet, what I was not prepared for, is that your sim, is set up to diminish the effectiveness of anything that is done above the average, (accept the forward pass.)

Clearly, I believe I have shown, your Logic is flawed, and your evaluation and administration of problem-solving solutions is nowhere near logical when confronted with reality, even an alternative reality such as this one.


Ummberrto, your logic is flawed for two reasons. First, you haven't mentioned the team you're playing against, only your team's prep. Second, some things are just harder to do than others. Because your team, as an example, does an onside kick every time they kickoff doesn't mean they should necessarily have a better chance at recovering it for two reasons- the opposing team will have seen your team's tendency for that situation, and the play is a hard play to succeed at. In this game (football- not the sim) practice doesn't necessarily make perfect- it just makes you better at what you do, but for every thing that you're trying to get right, there is an opposing force trying to make sure you fail. That's where talent comes into play, you don't seem to be taking that into account....

[Kingswood]

Copy and paste

That's what I did though....

[Kevin]

Watch old film of Dante Hall, ha!

I wish I could give rep here.

[PaperLions]

Hold up……you want the sim to account for the psychological and emotional nature of your team running fictitious practices?

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

“I will say this, me personally, as a rule, I would prepare my team to look at most all 4th downs as we are going for it, and all 2pt conversions as we are going for it.

That way, psychologically and emotionally, we are not under as much pressure as our opponents.
To my team, the fact that we practice, from the opening camps, that the 4th down is ours, the 2pt conversions are ours, that we are supposed to be going for 2pts, we are supposed to be going for 4th down, therefore our percentage of successful execution would eventually be way higher than the normal league average success rate.”

“The more My team Practices week after week and attempts these in game, the higher our team's level of confidence will grow, and the success rate will naturally increase dramatically over the average.”